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Your headline and article are deceiving

Nowhere in all of his quotes, does Rabbi Horowitz fault the Rabbinical leadership in Israel. Your statement,“Horowitz said that by not speaking out publicly against the violence, even though they oppose it, haredi leaders are empowering extremists in the community,” is pure fabrication on the part of your writer. I’ve read his articles on his website, and he speaks with utmost respect for the haredi leaders, while at the same time he calls for the community to stop the violent protests.

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I hope this experience does not put you off using the media to get a message across when necessary - for the average reader the message of the piece is "not all charedim are bad - here is a Rabbi who is standing up against the demos" and this is what you were trying to achieve.

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There are much more appropriate Israeli media, like Arutz Sheva, LeHavdil?

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The protest issue does not seem to bother frum Jews here in Israel as it does Jews else where. There is a poll taken by Ynet - 70% of Chareidim say that the protests do damage , 30% believe that the protests do protect the sanctity of shabbos

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Accordingly, I find Rabbi Horowitz's attacks on him to be counterproductive, perhaps a Chilul HASHEM!

I am sure there was a misunderstanding by Mr. Lefkovitz. I expect Rabbi Horowitz -- who is reputed to be a leading Mechanech/educator -- to have more effective ways to deal with such situations.

If he does not publicly apologize to Mr. Lefkovitz soon, I intend to do so on behalf of Shomrei Torah UMitzvos. Mr. Lefkovitz is a friend. Why alienate him?

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I agree with everything you've written, and I think that the Jersualem Post should issue a clarification.

However, chilul Hashem is based on perception. When one reads Kol Korehs, the perception--correct or not-- may be that chillul Shabbos, tzniyus, and kashrus is more important than chilul Hashem, simply based on the intensity of the language used.

The perception may be that "when there is a rabbinic will, there is a rabbinic way"; if something is important enough, one finds a way to get the message out! It is not the Mirer or Kamintezer Rosh Yeshivos who should be speaking out--although that's of course important-- but the rabbonim who most closely associate with zealots in any community, who should be taking a tougher line. And it is not only speaking out, but stopping the zealotry.

If there would be a campaign to cut off the institutions and the individuals of Meah Shearim and Ramat Beit Shemesh from tezdaka funds, the perception is that "you can bet that there would be a strong and effective condemnation from the community". I do not support such action, simply because it takes great halachic shoulders to do that, and also I think Jews should be rachamnim, merciful, and support these communities. However, I would hate it to come to that in the public's eyes.

Again, I agree with everything R. Horowitz said here(not that he needs my haskamah)and it is NOT my place to tell any rabbonim what to do; I'm simly saying what the perception of the Eidah rabbinic leadership is.

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When wrongs are being committed by masses, whether by mistake or by purposeful action that has leaders that use authority to direct them, there is the need for action and intervention. The trouble is - what is appropriate? What will convey the message properly? Which method has the best benefit to risk ratio? How do we voice our disagreement in a way that matters, could produce a result, and is not self depreciating?

These are powerful questions. Each situation is different. There may be approaches more appropriate for one that would be undermining and destructive in another. One would hope that leadership would be able to guide us.

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An article titled "Hasidic actor walks off Portman movie",(Daily News, 3/15/08) describes how both rabbinic and communal pressure forced a chasidishe actor from Willamsburg, father of three, to withdraw from his movie.

Thh Meah Shearim and Ramat Beit Shemesh community knows EXACTLY who the zealots are; I'm sure it's on film as well!

Where are the "howls of protest", pressure from schools of children, etc., from the Meah Shearim and Ramat Beit Shemesh communities of the zealots? Why do the zealots not have to "flee from the city"?

Are we to conclude that that those communities care more about items such as conduct below(note that the actor tried to observe aspects of halacha), than about its own image, and that of the Torah?

From the article:

"I am backing out of the movie," said [the actor], a kitchen cabinet salesman. "It's not acceptable in my community. It's a lot of pressure I am getting. They [the rabbis] didn't like the idea of a Hasidic guy playing in Hollywood.

"I have my kids in religious schools and the rabbi called me over yesterday and said in order for me to keep my kids in the school I have to do what they tell me and back out," [the actor] said.

While news of [the actor's] withdrawal sent waves of disappointment through the movie set, the Hasidic community was up in arms over [the actor's] acting gig - forcing him to flee for the weekend, a friend said.

...They wanted me to hold her hand, but I said 'no way,'" said [the actor], who proudly stood his ground. "It's against our religion. You can't even hold your wife's hand on the street."

Then came the howls of protest about his unorthodox job.

"This is when I woke up and saw that I made a big mistake. My kids mean everything to me and my community where I live means everything to me," said [the actor], who comes from a prominent Williamsburg, Brooklyn, family.

His longtime friend Levi Okunov said the [actor and his wife] had to flee the city for the weekend. "The community wants to kill him," he said. Hasidic community activist Isaac Weinberger said [the actor] should have known better.

"We don't watch television. We don't go to the movies, so to be in a movie is the worst thing. It's a shame for any Hasid," he said.

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As well as comments and letters from readers; I didn't comment on the JP site but hope my comment here will add to those who are commenting. So for all those who've found their way to this website via the JP article, let me add my voice to those who support Rabbi Horowitz, and wish him well and many years of health and means to continue his good work.

And let me also add my voice to those who have only the utmost respect for our rabbis and worthy sages. We live in an imperfect world - still waiting for the Messiah - so there will always be something to wax cynical over. But there is also more good than many people have a clue about.

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perhaps u could have first seeked advice from people who are more familiar with the jp [eg. rabbis b. wein & y.rosenblum] or gedolim in usa [eg. rabbi a. feldman who lived in ey for many yrs.] im sure they would have advised against ur interview, bec. of what did happen. {and ur lucky the jp didnt do worse.- actually the story isnt over yet & we will wait to see if & how the jp will use ur distorted words in the future.

i see ur story here, as another case of american mentality [& naivety]lacking real understanding of israeli non religous culture in general,&the media specifically.

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How did Moshe "forget" this Halacha of "KANOIM POIGIM BOI"?

A further question on Moshe also, after Pinchas asks him, "Didn't you say KANOIM POIGIM BOI?" He says, "Oh yeah I did say that, but you do it."

Why didn't Moshe jump up and kill him himself? He could have prevented the whole Lashon Hara about Pinchas. When they questioned his Yichus saying he was the child of a man who was a priest for Avodah Zarah. They said he should not be the one to kill off a Nasi Bi'yisroel.

The answer is that there are two types of people; the Kanoim and the regular people. There are also two types of leaders. Moshe had to be of the Non-Kanois variety. In the Gemara You Have Shamai and Hillel. It can be said Shamai was a Kanoi and Hillel was not. The Gemara says you should always be like Hillel and Not like Shamai. Does that mean the Shamai approach was wrong? No, at certain times each approach is needed. Then there has to be recognition that Kanois is important too in fact it is essential.

It is known that Rav Kook used to say the only reason he can be what he is, is because of Reb Yosef Chaim Sonnenfeld and his Kanois. His Frumkeit allows me to be more Liberal. When the nephew of Reb Sonnenfeld came to Reb Kook for a Bracha for his Chasunah, Rav Kook told him as a Cohen I can give you A Bracha, as for a Bracha from a Tzaddik, you must go to your Uncle."

The people of Yerushalayim have long been taking the approach of Reb Sonnenfeld of Kanois. Is it the wrong approach? NO. Is it for Americans? Also NO. But then there are people who sit here in America and Pass Judgment. It is funny. They don’t know the reality on the ground, how the fear of these so called Chillul Hashem Riots has prevented the Israeli Government from doing things that are way worse, and how if they see a weakening they will see it as an opportunity to take it to the next level.

Let us just remember this is the same government who kidnapped children to save them from their backwards RELIGIOUS parents they know no limits. Remember "Yoselleh ". Where the Israeli government just went into random houses and randomly Beat people looking for "evidence", so if you looked Yerushalmi you are guilty by affiliation(and the same thing happened in Satmar in Yerushalayim three years ago).

Read the current Knesset members' statements that say that when they see the RELIGIOUS people, they Understand why Hitler did what he did. These are people who unfortunately require this exactly "ZEH LEUMAS ZEH". So am I calling everyone to arms against the Israeli government? ABASLOUTELY NOT. BUT RECOGNIZE THE OTHER SIDE.

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where do you have your info about kraus? from the haaretz! don't you think it's possible the distorted him?

are you surprised they distorted you? do you constantly believe the coverage in the israeli secular media about the charedim?

the irony is, in your naivety you made a bigger chillul hashem them the protesters themselves! how does it look when a rabbi comes out and criticizes the gedolim?

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It is a Kiddush Hashem that there exists the possibility of an orthodox rabbi thinking for himself.

What makes us different than the other religions like Christianity that believes that a man can be G-d, and Islam that believes that religious "leaders" should enforce their personal views by force, is that in Judaism, each person is given a brain by Hashem and can learn Torah and come to the emes. Yes there is a Mesorah but there have been several times in history where the mesorah has been broken and needed to be regained.

Pinchas is one case of an individual acting alone against the prevailing opinions of the Gedolim and he was vindicated and rewarded by Hashem.

The Chillul Hashem is when people sit by idly while those who are "spokesmen" for our community are allowed by our Gedolim to have free reign. Rabbi Horowitz is trying to reverse that trend. Whether or not he actually "criticized" the Gedolim is irrelevant. His actions are like Pinchas, completely alone in the Midbar, without any public support of the Gedolim either here or in Eretz Yisroel. They would NEVER give an interview to the Jerusalem Post.

Rabbi Horowitz correctly surmised that the only way for us to improve the horrific image that the chilonim have of us in Israel and the whole world, is to "take it to their home" and start showing the world what we really are about.

Yasher Koach, Reb Yankie,

Asher

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I could be mistaken, but I have a feeling your statement does not accurately reflect what you wanted to convey. The Mesorah has never been broken--as we say in the 'ani maamins,' the Torah we have in our hands today is precisely the one given to Moshe Rabbeinu at Har Sinai.

That there has invariably existed machlokes about the meaning of the Torah and the requirements of halacha does not negate the unquestionable continuity of mesorah. Every valid interpretation of Torah and every viable halachic opinion must draw upon sources in our mesorah; one opinion is NOT as good as another if it is fabricated from thin air, even if it sounds brilliant.

Thinking for oneself is of course commendable, especially when it is done leshem shomayim, but our thoughts must always be guided by our mekoros. Please see Rashi on Parshas Balak, perek 25 pasuk 7 --"Vayar Pinchas" which describes Pinchas' witnessing the maaseh and subsequently rising from the 'edah,' then taking a spear to his hand. Rashi explains, "Vayar Pinchas: Ra-ah maaseh VENIZKAR HALACHAH"--he saw the maaseh and remembered the halchah! His kanaaus cannot chas vesholem be interpreted in isolation from the mesorah.

Otherwise, your point is well taken. Keep up the good work!

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This time it isn't even chilul Shabbos. What did the "treifa medina" do this time? It arrested a charedi woman whose 3-year-old daughter is starved and in the hospital, weighing all of 7 kilo, allegedly because of the mother's abuse/neglect.

I am literally in tears. The Torah is being disgraced, dishonored and distorted.

I heard that after the Baruch Goldstein incident and again after the Rabin assassination, Rav Amital of Gush had his yeshiva observe a ta'anis tzibur to be mechaper for the disgraceful chillul Hashem that transpired. Should this perhaps be our response to what's been happening? Doesn't Am Yisrael need kapara for the terrible disgrace to Torah that is happening before our eyes? Maybe the rabbanim should call for a worldwide day of fasting and tefila? Shouldn't we be doing something to call out to HKB"H and let Him know how sorry we are for what has become of His Torah which He entrused with us?

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i heard that the child was in the hospital for some medical issues, & was not getting the much needed care in the hospital. the mom pleaded & begged... but it didn't help, so her motherly instincts told her to take things into her own hands...& possibly seek better care elsewhere.[although it seems this was not the smart thing to do.]

u & i don't really know the truth, & so should not Jump to conclusions & accuse anyone, the way u did in ur post!! whatever happened to basic hilcos kabolas [believing] loshon horah?!?!?!?!

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"...In response, scores of haredi protesters took to the streets Tuesday night, setting garbage bins on fire on Rehov Bar-Ilan and in the Mea She'arim neighborhood, snarling traffic in the area, Jerusalem police spokesman Shmuel Ben-Ruby said."

I think that the Eidah should adopt Rabbi Horowitz's idea regarding signing on Kol Koreh's; a Kol Koreh needs to give information on who organized it so the public knows. Is it the Gedolim or the "operation's Officer"?

A lack of transparency is a cause of corruption; the secular world realizes this as well, and institutes checks and balances.

I recall hearing from R. Berel Wein that Maskilim had issues with public policy such as the Cantonist system, besides intellectual issues. We should learn from history, that transparency will aid kavod Hatorah.

Perhaps one can learn from the RCA resolution this past May, titled "Institutional Transparency":

"The financial and ethical scandals that have come to light of late have engendered a great deal of cynicism in the members of the Orthodox Jewish community regarding the religious and communal institutions that serve them.

Such cynicism erodes the respect due community leaders in light of their prodigious efforts on behalf of their constituents, saps motivation and financial contributions and thereby handicaps new initiatives, and causes young people to become jaded about the possibility of working on behalf of the community.

In order to regain the confidence of the Jewish community, let it be resolved that all Jewish communal institutions strive to attain levels of transparency regarding financial affairs, regarding the mechanism of leadership succession, and regarding the planning and execution of general business.

Vehicles for attaining transparency include annual open meetings, featuring complete reports of their activities and financial condition, as well as periodic newsletters detailing current news and goals.

Through this transparency, our Jewish communal institutions will regain the crucial support and participation of community members, ensuring organizational viability and on-going success. "

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"It is with great reluctance that the Yated has undertaken to point out a number of the more recent excesses of Rabbi Avi Weiss and others who espouse “Open Orthodoxy.” We had hoped that our brethren affiliated with organizations such as Yeshiva University, the Rabbinical Council of America, (RCA) and the Orthodox Union, (OU) would have been more forthcoming in vociferously protesting these excesses, the silence of these organizations regarding many aberrations has forced us to unwillingly raise our voice in protest, so that our lack of protest should not mistakenly be construed as silent acquiescence."

If so, one can make a kal vachomer: certainly one must protest in newspapers against violence in Eretz Yisrael, since it will help create a groundswell of opinion against the rioters. Otherwise, kal vachomer, people will say that silence of the Charedi press is assent.

For example, to quote Rabbi Horowitz in “They Do Not Represent Us” on incidents such as zealotry in Beit Shemesh and elsewhere in Eretz Yisrael:

” Charedi publications should report this incident in the news sections of their papers and condemn them in their editorials. Additionally, we should treat these thugs like the ‘rodfim’ that they are and do our best to see that they are prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. ”

http://www.rabbihorowitz.com/PYes/ArticleDetails.cfm?Book_ID=904&ThisGroup_ID=262&Type=Article

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Here are some hard questions: What are the precise demographics of the participants and what do these details tell us about what is motivating the behavior? Why do other groups choose alternate means of expressing their views? What needs are these outrageous mob events fulfilling in their participants? Is there a more constructive way to fulfll these needs? What are we as a community doing to reinforce these patterns? (hint: the answer is not 'nothing.')What can we be doing differently in the bigger picture?

My sense is that these events--especially as frequent as they are--should not be viewed in isolation, but rather as symptoms conveying information about the health of the systemic whole. We can condemn the feverish pitch and the ugly sores, but, more importantly, we should be seeking the sources of infection and examining the lifestyle issues that foster susceptibility.

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At this point, we are dealing with non-theoretical issues. We have acts of violence. The burning garbage is hot and dangerous, not just interesting or symbolic. The arrests and batterings are not faked by stuntmen for the filming. The articles that appear in media across the globe are not comical spoofs.

The approach of analysis from the sideline may have its longer term utility. Today, we need action, not speeches or articles. We need the leadership to put a stop to chilul Hashem by statements from gedolim and by guidance that is specific. The Israeli police were not wrong for challenging the rioters until they rioted. I would not defend their violence either, but the "chareidim" started the violence. We need other means of protest and insuring shmiras Shabbos, or voicing whatever other causes are worthy.

So I am resisting the temptation to respond to those who have already asked me about the psyches of the demonstrators. This issue pales in comparison to the need for decisive and immediate action to restore Kedushas Yisroel.

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1) The question is how? The argument made is that "Gedolim can't do anything", unless they personally go around to disperse the crowd.

For example, see link to a recent article in Matzav.com :

"Think about it: If a pulpit rabbi can’t get his own congregant to stop talking during Chazoras Hashatz, how do we expect a rav, Godol or otherwise, to stop someone from acting like an idiot? The fact that the idiot dresses his violent behavior in Chareidi “levush” is not a reason to assume that he is doing so with the blessing of his rebbe. In his mind, he might even believe he knows better than the rebbe"

2) I disagree with the above Matzav article.

Rabbi Yonah Metzger told on a Zev Brenner show, how there is a mechanism in halacha to deny the *child* of a member of Neturie Karta in Austria a Jewish education. We also see the concept of children's education in the article on the Portman movie and the Satmar community(comment # 13, above).

Therefore, the Eidah really has to organize and *identify* which sect, and which shul(sub-group) harbors the problem. Each group then has a *Rav*.

Now comes the tough part. How do you enforce a Rav's ruling? The answer is the same way you force a child's mother to dress properly before accepting the child in school; the same way communities in *America* have a tzniyus guard with authority!

This may sound sharp, but to me it boils down to what's important to a community. L'havdil, Arabs say as well "they can't control the population", but we don't accept that!

So if we want to stop it, the Eidah askonim need to work with Rabbonim to issue statements, and then IDENTIFY the perpetrators and ENFORCE the ruling.

Of course, the crux is that there is a religious WAR, a kulturcampf in Israel, and a Chiloni government. Especially the Eidah, has a problem of *partially* "allowing the genie out of the bottle"; how do you fight against the government and also control your own population? Nevertheless, I believe it can be done.

Also, note that the pictures and films show teenage boys, not from the Eidah, as well. Regarding the latter, other communities can deal with them no differently than if they went to anything else inappropriate.

3) Rabbi Shafran wrote the following regarding the protests for the Gay Parade in 2006 (I would certainly be interested in his opinion and insight on the current situation, as situations might have changed since 2006):

"There is no question that those who burned tires and such in protest of the impending parade did not do so with the guidance of Torah authorities.

But there are two things to keep in mind when wondering why those authorities did not (if indeed they did not) more explicitly condemn the violence. One is that to do so establishes a precedent that will require a reaction every time some hooligan throws a stone (not to belittle the wrongness of that!) or shouts something rude. That is a recipe for ridicule, leading to complaints about “Well, they condemned “X”, why not “Y” or “Z”?). To be sure, there is a point where I think the Gedolim would feel it necessary to issue a condemnation. But if they don’t feel that garbage fires and the like rise to that level (even if I might think they do), I respect their judgment. It’s not as easy a call to make as it may seem to us armchair observers.

Secondly, the line between civil disobedience (which includes “causing inconvenience” in Ahron’s phrase) and wrong-headed violence is not as sharp as some might think. To some, an overly vocal protest is going too far; to others, burning tires is a form of self-expression. We can all take our positions as we wish (my personal leanings are in the former direction), but at the same time we do well to allow for other points of view.

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"Jerusalem - A chareidi avreich sent to the Transportation Ministry and the National Authority for Road Safety an original suggestion how to prevent the high number of traffic offenders. His idea was that 7-time serious traffic violation offenders would have their face and name publicized in the media. The idea has a simple principle behind it: humiliation is as powerful a motivation if not more than a stiff monetary fine.

The National Authority for Road Safety was enthusiastic about the idea and is presently preparing it as a bill for the Knesset to vote over. They asked the chareidi to come to their office to discuss the details of his plan with them.

Before he took up their offer, the avreich decided to check if the idea negates halacha in any way. He visited Rav Elyashiv to get his opinion.

Rav Elyashiv said that the idea is in principle good, but "these laws they want to enforce are not Torah laws but laws of arka'os which the legislators made up themselves. How can we support any non-Torah laws -- even indirectly? We may not support them."

I read the concluding paragraph above with tremendous surprise. I had been expecting the opposition to be based upon the severity of humiliating one's fellow Jew; instead i realized that our Rabbonim are extremely preoccupied with avoiding any sort of collaboration with secular Israeli authorities, even when the cause is not in itself objectionable.

I am a small person and readily admit that my perspective pales to that of Rav Elyashiv and others of his madrega. BUT: any yeshiva bachur looking for an exciting night on the town knows full well that he can dismiss the authority of the anti-Charedi Zionist cops. Moreover, he has been trained to believe it is a mitzvah to denigrate them and treat them wth arrogace and hostility.

The Rabbonim are not exactly coming out in droves to supervise the madness, catch the hurled stones, or keep an eye on the flames. The cops are--but they are neither appreciated nor offered any degree of cooperation. We can be assertive in condemning the violence in letters to editors and kol koreis, but that is all a matter of talk. The question remains, in the memorable words of Rav Noah Weinberg ZTL: 'what are you gonna DO about it?'

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My understanding is that most of the protesters are young yeshiva students. Why is this the gedolims babysitting job--WHERE ARE THE PARENTS?

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The road to he** is paved with good intentions. Considering that these simpletons would jump off their roof if the rebbe told them so, you are trying to say that there is no way the rabbonim can stop them?

I blame them for not being LOUD enough in denouncation of this violence. Threatening excommunication to whoever attends this atrocities would be a good start.

As far as the Israeli government, I propose they cut the public benefits for life for anyone caught violently protesting.

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The sensationalism, negativism, and distortion of facts and views in the media should be apparent to all. Our own “kosher” media, websites, and blogs have, in most cases, done nothing more that put a yarmulke (of whatever color or material) on the same brands of journalism that we loathe and criticize regularly.

For a greater appreciation of the dangers of the media, I highly recommend this post:

http://luleidemistafina.blogspot.com/2009/07/nattering-nabobs-of-negativism.html

As that author writes, Rabbi Horowitz is one of the few that faces up to the issues in a positive and productive way. For that he has earned my respect as a true leader. (I would say gadol, but then this comment would somehow escape posting.) It would behoove us all to follow his example and not lower ourselves or our standing in the world any further with any behavior that creates further chillul Hashem or otherwise harm our cause.

P.S. – Rabbi Horowitz, if you agree with the writer of the above post, may I humbly suggest contacting him to allow the article to be featured on your website. I think it would go a long way to teach civil discourse to the commenters on this website and on Jewish blogs at large. (I have no personal interest in this nor have I ever met the writer of that blog.)

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Chazal fault a generation and its leaders for not protesting enough against a particlular Aveirah. THIS is Daas Torah, and indeed the philosophy of the Eidah and others when they protest against chilul Shabbos.

I quote below from an article in a frum paper which critized the concept of "writ[ing] letters to the secular media decrying the objectionable behavior of their fellow chareidim."

I wish to say that I respect the sincerity of the above writer, and his right to differ from me. Nevertheless, I respectfully submit that this approach is part of the problem.

From the Yated:

"The problem is compounded when religious people who ought to know better get swept up in the propaganda. People who have never witnessed a protest over the desecration of Shabbos allow themselves to be manipulated by media hype. They encourage other frum Jews to write letters to the secular media decrying the objectionable behavior of their fellow chareidim. They rush to express sympathy for secular Israelis who are lobbying for a new parking lot-right opposite the walls of Yerushalayim.

Rabbis who ought to know better feed the media one-liners against the violent extremists, as if they constitute a sizeable camp. They issue sharp indictments which reinforce the stereotype of Orthodox Jews as an archaic, intolerant bunch of people.

Should Jews be engaging in violence? Of course not. Do we believe that burning garbage pails is the way to return Jews to their heritage? Of course not. But think of the media coverage splashed over these few incidents compared with the manner in which public protests in, let’s say, Iran, are treated by the world press."

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1) The rioters in Ramat Beit Shemesh are not a "fringe element"

2) They have no connection to other "charedim".

I believe that the Yated needs to emphasize these points loud and clear.

Quoting Jonthan Rosenblum:

"Most of the writers on this thread use the term “chareidim” as if it were one thing. It is not. I feel almost no sense of identification, for instance, with those who have turned Ramat Beit Shemesh into a battle zone, over the placement of a sign warning women to dress properly (just like the signs in Meah Shearim). The idea that one can leave Meah Shearim and turn one’s new surroundings into a mini-Meah Shearim is dangerous to all, including those who hold such ideas. (I’m told that they have been cut off from most communal tzedakah funds, despite being very needy, in many cases.)I would only note that they pledge fealty to no gadol b’Yisrael, and I doubt you would find one who would claim credit for them.

Those who have incited Menachem Lipkin’s wrath are a real phenomenon within what is generally thought of as chareidi society — not just a fringe element. But there are many who feel completely unconnected to them, and do not feel that the term chareidi can even serve as an umbrella term for the variety of communities."

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Was that perhaps an indirect swipe at Rabbi Horowitz for interacting with the Jerusalem Post? Is it wrong for Rabbi Horowitz to follow the Daas Torah cited and protest against the aveiros of the protestors?

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http://matzav.com/%e2%80%9cshabbos-shabbos%e2%80%9d/

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"Exclusive: In response to a request for clarification of the views of Rav Moshe Shternbuch, Rosh Av Bais Din of the Eidah Hachareidis, on the current rioting connected with the arrest of a mother suspected of abusing her child, Rabbi Daniel Eidensohn has shared with Matzav.com that he was authorized to report the following in Rav Shternbuch’s name. We thank Rabbi Eidensohn for clarifying this matter for us."

Rav Shternbuch maintains that the rioting is wrong and he has condemned the demonstrators as being “mushugoyim.” He said that it was, in fact, the duty of the hospital to report their findings to the authorities and thus they acted appropriately. He criticized the talk about boycotting the hospital in retaliation. He said it makes no sense and, is, in fact, “very self-damaging.”

Rav Shternbuch asserted that the real point of contention is not whether this woman is guilty or innocent, but rather the way the police have dealt with her, chaining her hands and feet. If, in fact, it is true - as the police have claimed - that this woman is mentally ill, she should not have been placed in a cell together with dangerous criminals.

The reason that Rav Shterbuch hasn’t issued a statement for the street or put up wall posters is simply because he knows that he has very little influence on the people who are rioting. They don’t accept his authority. There are other people who wield more influence, but they have yet to be convinced that the police have justification for what they have done. Rav Shternbuch is doing what he can behind the scenes to end the confrontation.

http://matzav.com/rav-shternbuchs-response-to-the-rioting-in-yerushalayim/#more-12192

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Baruch Hashem for people like Rav Shternbuch(not that he needs my Haskamah)!

Some questions:

1) Who are the "people who wield more influence"?

Are they the Rabbonim of the Eidah or the "Operations Officer" of the Eidah, who can can "set the haredi street on fire, often literally, with a telephone call or even a word", according to the J Post article?

2)If these people "have yet to be convinced that the police have justification for what they have done", does that mean that they agree to the violence as collateral damage?

3) The AMERICAN Agudah organized B'tzedek, as a means to advocate for Charedi rights in a civil manner. The Eidah may not "recognize" the Medinah, but why not advocate in a civil manner? Why always the law of the streets?

4) If the Eidah can not control it's members, should they be involved in organizing protests for chilul Shabbos, etc. ?

5) Is the American Charedi press derelict in not being forceful enough against violence?