Please enable JavaScript in your browser to experience all the custom features of our site.

RabbiHorowitz.com

Mr. Harry Skydell, Chairman
Mr. Mark Karasick, Vice Chairman
Rabbi Yakov Horowitz, Director
Rabbi Avrohom M. Gluck, Director of Operations
The first 1000 members will have a chance to win a
16 GB
iPod
touch
with Rabbi Horowitz audio

Membership Benefits:

  • Save articles to your favorites folder.
  • Save and print selected articles in a PDF journal.
  • Receive emails containing the latest comments on your favorite articles.
  • Mark articles as "READ".
  • More member features coming soon...

Raffle Rules:

NO PURCHASE NECESSARY. To enter, complete the signup form and join as a member. Incomplete entries will be disqualified. All entries shall become the property of CJFL. CJFL is not responsible for lost, misdirected or delayed entries.

The contest is open to the general public. Members need to be at least 18 years old. Identification must be produced on request. Employees of CJFL, its raffle sponsor, advertising and promotional agencies and their respective affiliates and associates and such employees' immediate family members and persons with whom such employees are domiciled are excluded from this raffle. ALL PREVIOUSLY REGISTERED MEMBERS WILL BE AUTOMATICALLY ENTERED INTO THIS RAFFLE. The prize is not redeemable in cash and must be accepted as awarded. Decisions of the raffle judges are final - no substitutions will be available. By claiming the prize, the winner authorizes the use, without additional compensation of his or her name and/or likeness (first initial and last name) and municipality of residence for promotion and/or advertising purposes in any manner and in any medium (including without limitation, radio broadcasts, newspapers and other publications and in television or film releases, slides, videotape, distribution over the internet and picture date storage) which CJFL may deem appropriate. In accepting the prize, the winner, acknowledges that CJFL may not be held liable for any loss, damages or injury associated with accepting or using this prize. CJFL retains the rights, in its absolute and sole discretion, to make substitutions of equivalent kind or approximate value in the event of the unavailability of any prize or component of the prize for any reason whatsoever. This contest is subject to all federal, provincial and municipal laws. CJFL reserves the right to withdraw or terminate this raffle at any time without prior notice. One entry per person.


Well Intentioned, But Not Recommended - My Final Thoughts on Kol Yisroel Areivim
by Rabbi Yakov Horowitz

  Rated by 33 users   |   Viewed 9289 times since 5/27/10   |   44 Comments
Decrease Font Size Increase Font Size    [ Change Font Size ] Email This Article to a Friend
   

5/27/10

Note to Our Readers:

The Monsey-based Areivim Program, led by Rabbi Shmuel Gluck, who is a regular contributor to this website, does extraordinary work with teens at risk and is not affiliated in any way with any of the three Areivim life insurance programs.

I warmly and proudly endorse the Monsey Arevim teen program -- as a resource for parents and as an excellent venue for your charity dollars.

Rabbi Yakov Horowitz

Areivim has done an outstanding job of raising public consciousness about the matter of uninsured members of our community and the need to find a better way to do things other than the heartbreaking campaigns that regularly occur – and for this we all owe them a debt of gratitude.

As you can see from my correspondence with Areivim, I proceeded with the utmost respect for their efforts, and merely wanted to conduct my diligence regarding their very well-intentioned project. The two members of Kol Yisrael Areivim’s leadership with whom I met are polite, energetic people who are clearly motivated to help the klal – and are genuinely interested in receiving feedback. They have both invested enormous amounts of time and effort in this project and have been wildly successful in raising awareness about a critical subject.

Unfortunately, the more I looked into the organization, the more issues presented themselves. All the while, I was contacted by numerous professionals and community leaders who felt that the model created is too problematic and they encouraged me to share that information with Areivim and with my readers. Therefore, with a heavy heart, I advise all my readers who are subscribed or contributors to Kol Yisroel Areivim to dissolve your relationship with them – and it would probably be wise to do so in writing and by certified mail with return receipt requested, so you can have proof of your disassociation.

This past Monday I prepared and submitted an op-ed column that was to run in this week’s Jewish Press with the above recommendation, and as per my arrangement with The Jewish Press, would have posted it yesterday after the issue was on the newsstands.

Very late Monday night, I got a call from the American Director of Va’ad HaRabbonim asking me to meet with him personally before I run the column. In the interest of fairness, and despite the fact that it was unfair to The Jewish Press to leave them with an empty slot at publication time, I cancelled the column (it will run next week) and met with him yesterday. However, the meeting only reinforced and amplified my concerns many times over.

I do not feel that this public and permanent forum is the venue to air details of the concerns raised by the professionals with whom I spoke, but should any of this be relevant to you personally, kindly drop my assistant an email at cbecker@rabbihorowitz.com and she will be glad to email you a one-pager that I prepared with more information.

All this is separate and aside from the fact that there is little transparency or leadership information on any of the Areivim programs (For example, the fellow who I met yesterday does not have his name on any Vaad Harabbanim or Areivim ads.) and the mishmash of the three different Areivim programs makes them all less tenable.

Finally, many of the “endorsements” are, at the very best, flimsy. Agudath Israel never endorsed Areivim at any time (although individual Moetzes members seem to have signed support letters), and leadership of The Young Israel and The Orthodox Union (OU) sent me statements clearly indicating that they do not support any Areivim programs. And in the short time since Mr. Bochner sent me the names of individuals who are purportedly Board members of Areivim; three of them – Abe Biderman, Yatty Weinreb, and Abe Roth personally contacted me and said they were never involved with any Areivim programs.

At the end of my meeting with the Director of the Va’ad Harabbonim last night, I shared with him my thoughts for a constructive, uncomplicated and completely legal way of addressing this matter. I also offered my full support and backing if Kol Yisroel Areivim were to immediately move to a program such as described below. However, he responded that he is not sure that this is the way to go, and that even if he did, it would take months to make those adjustments.

“Lo actuary ani v’lo ben actuary,” and obviously this idea needs a great deal of tweaking as I just thought of it yesterday, but here are the broad strokes of what might be the framework of an effective program:

1) Couples meet with a professional life insurance agent and secure policies for one or both parents. Newly married couples should purchase insurance immediately and lock in the rate for as long as possible (the premiums for young healthy people are much lower than they will be at any time later in their lives).

2) Once they receive an acceptance letter from an approved life insurance company, they can submit an application form with their personal financial information to “the organization” requesting full or partial underwriting of their premium.

3) “The organization” will respond to the applicant regarding the status of their application and financial assistance will be made on a sliding scale basis.

4) The applicant remits his/her portion of the premium directly to the insurance company and the remainder of the premium is paid in installments by “The organization” directly to the insurance company.

5) It might be a good idea to encourage healthy living by agreeing to cover those people in higher risk categories, that are within their capacity to remediate, providing that they drop the bad habit (such as smoking; as opposed to a medical precondition or family history).

6) Members of our community are asked to contribute by underwriting the policy of a “partner.”

In order to avoid any appearance of conflict of interest due to my involvement in the Areivim matter, I will not serve in such an endeavor in any capacity whatsoever other than as an unpaid advisor.

I offer this website as a vehicle for parties interested in bringing an idea to fruition to get in touch with each other. In particular, I ask all the wonderful professionals who contacted me with their concerns about Areivim and who would like to be involved in this effort, to to drop an email to my assistant, at cbecker@rabbihorowitz.com and she will get you in touch with one another.

The Brisker Rov zt’l famously stated that one of the main functions of a Rabbi is to advocate for and support the weakest members of his community – to give a voice to the voiceless. I hope that I have fulfilled that sacred responsibility by advocating for the widows and orphans who might fall through the cracks of a well-intentioned but poorly designed safety net at some point in the future.

© 2010, Rabbi Yakov Horowitz, all rights reserved

Recommended reading:

The Areivim “Life Insurance” Program

Areivim - Unanswered Questions

Areivim's Response to the" Unanswered Questions"

As a service to the public Project YES is pleased to offer an exciting webinar series presented by Rabbi Yakov Horowitz.

Entitled “Parenting Matters” this two part series will discuss:

Having the “Talk” about Personal Space Before Your Child Leaves for Camp - Thursday evening, June 10th at 10:00 p.m.

The Art of the Deal – Effective Negotiations with your Teen – Thursday evening, June 17th at 10:00 p.m.

See and hear Rabbi Horowitz from the comfort of your own home! Participants will be able to submit questions in advance and take part in this exclusive series over a secure internet connection.

As this is a live, web-based seminar, space is limited. To sign up and receive your login details, email: ProjectYES@pyes.org

The webcast will be available for download after the event.

For more information, please call Project YES at 718.256.5360 ext. 209 or email: ProjectYES@pyes.org

Rabbi Yakov Horowitz is the founder and dean of Yeshiva Darchei Noam of Monsey, and the founder and director of Project YES, a national organization which provides at-risk and pre-risk teens with a teen mentoring program, parent mentoring, an advice help-line, and the website www.rabbihorowitz.com.



To sign up for Rabbi Horowitz’s weekly emails, please click here.


Reader's Comments:      Rating & Comments Policy      Rate & Write a Comment!
 Average Rating:              Rated by 33 users    (44 comments)
Subscribe to this Article
(by subscribing you will receive email notification
when new comments are posted)

Report this Post

Thank you.
Your report has been submitted.
You may not see immediate results on your browser, but rest assured, the offensive or inappropriate comment will be dealt with automatically.
You can only report a comment once.


1. to yitzchak     5/27/10 - 3:38 PM
Anonymous

kindly send contact information

it will not be posted


Report this Post

Thank you.
Your report has been submitted.
You may not see immediate results on your browser, but rest assured, the offensive or inappropriate comment will be dealt with automatically.
You can only report a comment once.


2.     5/27/10 - 4:09 PM
But Why?

Why not allow the Areivim concept to continue but with the following tweaks:

1) Get members who are willing to pay but not receive. Keep track of how many such members you have. This is Group 1. 2) For every x 'giving' members they can accept one "taking + giving" member - who will need to show why they should be in the receiving group. I leave it to the Life Insurance actuaries to deteremine the "x" in the sentence above. This is Group 2. 3) Upon the death of anyone in Group 2 a collection is made from all memebrs of Group 1 and 2 and paid out immediately.

In this way the almonos and yesomim in Group 2 are covered, but without the embarassment of feeling like shnorrers since they too "paid in"; Nor do they have to justify their need to a Rov upon death.

The only negative aspect is proving that they be allowed into Group 2. Of course they probably have to do this or tuition assistance each year anyway. AND the same problem exists with Rabbi H's idea. And for folks in Group 1 it is pure tzedokah since every dollar goes to the bereaved and nothing to the insurance company's profit requirement.


Report this Post

Thank you.
Your report has been submitted.
You may not see immediate results on your browser, but rest assured, the offensive or inappropriate comment will be dealt with automatically.
You can only report a comment once.


3. You seem to paint different groups with a single brush......     5/27/10 - 4:27 PM
MS - Brooklyn

....despite stating you met with people from a single group. You met with representatives of Kol Yisroel Areivim and Vaad Harrabonim. However, they have nothing to do with Kupat Hair and the folks at "Areivim USA".

The recommendation is to stay away from all such programs because you found that one of the groups leaves a lot to be desired? That sounds almost as unprofessional as the groups you are advising to stay away from.

Please clarify what you advise.

1) This type of "insurance" no matter who offers it, under what name so long as it is in this format is to be avoided?

2) The "insurance" being offered by Mr. Bochner and Vaad Harrabonim is to be avoided and you have not reached a decision regarding the Kupat Ha'ir version?

3) The various groups are really one and the same?

Please clarify.


Report this Post

Thank you.
Your report has been submitted.
You may not see immediate results on your browser, but rest assured, the offensive or inappropriate comment will be dealt with automatically.
You can only report a comment once.


4. Thank you Rabbi H     5/27/10 - 4:53 PM
LifeAct

I appreciate all the effort you put into investigating this program/organization. You have used your broad influence to bring important concerns to the forefront of any discussion about this subject. In addition to raising concerns, you have put forward a very viable alternative.

I will certainly be in contact with your secretary.


Report this Post

Thank you.
Your report has been submitted.
You may not see immediate results on your browser, but rest assured, the offensive or inappropriate comment will be dealt with automatically.
You can only report a comment once.


5. Because Professionals Know How to Manage the Risks     5/27/10 - 5:14 PM
Michael

"But Why" asks why not keep the Areivim premise, all you need is to determine the number "x" as he describes using professional advice.

He himself is acknowledging that professional actuaries and money managers are in the best position to weigh the risks and properly invest the funds. Well meaning amateurs can't. People don't realize that the insurance business is mostly about cashflow management and investment of the premiums flowing in and assessing risks to determine premiums. R. Horowitz's proposal makes eminent sense.


Report this Post

Thank you.
Your report has been submitted.
You may not see immediate results on your browser, but rest assured, the offensive or inappropriate comment will be dealt with automatically.
You can only report a comment once.


6. to clarify     5/27/10 - 5:26 PM
Yakov Horowitz - Monsey NY

I met with the heads of Kol Yisroel Arevim which is supported by Vaad Harabbanim.

However, the problems are the same with any of the 3 programs because they are all well-intentioned attempts to "recreate the wheel" and make an insurance program.

There are huge legal issues with that, aside from the practical logistical nightmares it will create.

As I see it, there are two options:

1) Do what I suggest and help people buy commercial life insurance.

or

2) Continue the Arevim model as is -- but make it a pure tzedaka, meaning that you sign up to give money if there is c'v a tragedy. That way there are no legal issues and it is much simpler. (I suggested that to the Arevim people as well.)

As for the confusion between the 3 "Arevims", that is part of the problem that I didn't create. It is confusing. And I am pretty sure that most people did not know that there were 3 Arevim programs in the first place.

And the issue with the endorsements needs a great deal of work.

I hope that clarifies matters -- at least my position.


Report this Post

Thank you.
Your report has been submitted.
You may not see immediate results on your browser, but rest assured, the offensive or inappropriate comment will be dealt with automatically.
You can only report a comment once.


7.     5/27/10 - 5:29 PM
Anonymous

"Finally, many of the “endorsements” are, at the very best, flimsy. Agudath Israel never endorsed Areivim at any time (although individual Moetzes members seem to have signed support letters), and leadership of The Young Israel and The Orthodox Union (OU) sent me statements clearly indicating that they do not support any Areivim programs. And in the short time since Mr. Bochner sent me the names of individuals who are purportedly Board members of Areivim; three of them – Abe Biderman, Yatty Weinreb, and Abe Roth personally contacted me and said they were never involved with any Areivim programs."

Phoney endorsements. Lying about who's on the board.

Folks, I think that sums up the honesty and reliability of the organization...


Report this Post

Thank you.
Your report has been submitted.
You may not see immediate results on your browser, but rest assured, the offensive or inappropriate comment will be dealt with automatically.
You can only report a comment once.


8. Thanks     5/27/10 - 5:31 PM
Anonymous

Yasher Koach! Thanks for your great articles on this topic. One question: Why have the organization at all? Once you've met with an insurance agent buy insurance and that's the end of the story.


Report this Post

Thank you.
Your report has been submitted.
You may not see immediate results on your browser, but rest assured, the offensive or inappropriate comment will be dealt with automatically.
You can only report a comment once.


9. Insurance Company "Profit Requirements"     5/27/10 - 5:39 PM
LifeAct

How do you, as an outsider, know what the Profit Requirement is, or if there even is one? As it happens, level premium term insurance is a losing business for many insurers and they offer it only to "get a foot in the door". Even those companies that do make money do so by subsidizing different age and risk groups against each other. At competitive levels, young and middle age healthy people are paying less than the actual cost of insurance (the cost includes the company's expenses).


Report this Post

Thank you.
Your report has been submitted.
You may not see immediate results on your browser, but rest assured, the offensive or inappropriate comment will be dealt with automatically.
You can only report a comment once.


10. Don't help the yesomim??     5/27/10 - 5:59 PM
Yosef - New York, NY - shlomozalman@gmail.com

R' Horowitz,

Are you suggesting that if someone is currently a member of Areivim they not help the yesomim should something c'v occur where yesomim are left??


Report this Post

Thank you.
Your report has been submitted.
You may not see immediate results on your browser, but rest assured, the offensive or inappropriate comment will be dealt with automatically.
You can only report a comment once.


11.     5/27/10 - 6:19 PM
Anonymous

I'm shocked, I know you well Rabbi Horowitz and know that you're a very responsible person, so how can you take it upon yourself such an Achreiyess with unforeseeable results? Some people are going to take your advice, but others won't therefore what happens then? Do we now become kiitois kitois? You had good questions and they had good answers and those questions you didn't ask, and those answers they didn't give, were supplied by many readers. Rabbi Horowitz, I respect you greatly, but cannot fathom how you, a one man team can take all this responsibility on you shoulders. Wouldn't it have been a better idea to call for an Asifa of Klal leaders to come to either conclusion? I personally have life insurance, but I joined anyhow and gladly paid the money when it was asked from me. I have a feeling that it has thousands of members like me; the main question remains, yes, you spoke up for the unfortunate God forbid future Almoness and Yesoimim, but did you speak correctly?

We can all be wrong, and maybe you’re right, but who can take such a responsibility?


Report this Post

Thank you.
Your report has been submitted.
You may not see immediate results on your browser, but rest assured, the offensive or inappropriate comment will be dealt with automatically.
You can only report a comment once.


12.     5/27/10 - 6:34 PM
Anonymous

We live in a internet world where a Rabbi can make conclusions and bury an organization like Areivim...I know of 2 almunes who benefit from them and b"h they received the $$$ what areivim stands for..How does Rabbi Horowitz take the achreies to condem such an org......I think he need Al Chyte with a hammer for this one......


Report this Post

Thank you.
Your report has been submitted.
You may not see immediate results on your browser, but rest assured, the offensive or inappropriate comment will be dealt with automatically.
You can only report a comment once.


13. Yeyasher Kochahah     5/27/10 - 6:54 PM
Tayerre Baal Habos

Great accomplishment! In addition to the hopefully imminent withdrawl of this ill-conceived program, I hope it serves to raise consciousness that not all programs managed by and targetting the heimishe oilem are worthwhile. Caveat Emptor, even with respect to glossy advertisements with haskomos.


Report this Post

Thank you.
Your report has been submitted.
You may not see immediate results on your browser, but rest assured, the offensive or inappropriate comment will be dealt with automatically.
You can only report a comment once.


14. In defense of Rabbi Horowitz     5/27/10 - 6:57 PM
Previous Areivim Donor

I see a few comments decrying Rabbi Horowitz for his suggestion that people terminate their relationship with Areivim. I wholeheartedly agree (and have done so, although they didn't call me back to confirm that they removed me from their collection list, despite my repeated requests).

We can't be a community that enables bad programs. In the long run it hurts all of us. You can be small minded and think of the short term, and yes will be lots of people who pull out hopefully, but that will stop people from relying on some well sham program that when someone r"l dies will not be there for them as they promised. Already people have died, and have not received the benefits they were relying on with the simple explanation that "not enough people signed up yet..."

Besides for that, anyone claiming people as his board members only to have them emphatically deny such an association is a fraud and should be shut down as quick as possible.

Thanks you Rabbi Horowitz, and I wish you would do a thorough investigation of the other organizations linked to this whole Areivim, KYA debacle. When there is mold on one apple in the barrel, there is often some on some of the others as well!


Report this Post

Thank you.
Your report has been submitted.
You may not see immediate results on your browser, but rest assured, the offensive or inappropriate comment will be dealt with automatically.
You can only report a comment once.


15. A Better Solution to the Problem     5/27/10 - 9:12 PM
Yaakov Moshe - Brooklyn, NY

The most secure and professional way to provide financial security to survivors of a breadwinner's untimely death is to ensure that every family is covered at least under a term life insurance policy. Every yeshiva, Jewish organization, indeed every mosad must cover their employees with term insurance.

The person who is directly familiar with promoting this concept for years has been Mr. Albert Kahn of Flatbush. His sincerity, honesty and persistence in advancing this tremendous need is known by many, but apparently not by all since the problem of financial insecurity for widows and yesomim is still unfortunately with us.


Report this Post

Thank you.
Your report has been submitted.
You may not see immediate results on your browser, but rest assured, the offensive or inappropriate comment will be dealt with automatically.
You can only report a comment once.


16.     5/27/10 - 10:59 PM
Anonymous

Before you badmouth Rabbi Horowitz,Just imagine the following scenario, Yankel is 35 yers and healthy he could without any problem afford to buy plenty of Life Insurance but he just signs up with Areivim thinking he will have free Life Insurance, in 10 years from now Areivim for whatever reason is no longer around, Yankel is now 45 with 10 children but has Medical Condition and can't buy Life Insurance or ch"v Yankel passed away and his almonah and yesomim are pennyless, why, since Yankel could have bought a Life Insurance and did not since he was made to believe that Areivim is Free Life Insurance and now his family will nebech suffer


Report this Post

Thank you.
Your report has been submitted.
You may not see immediate results on your browser, but rest assured, the offensive or inappropriate comment will be dealt with automatically.
You can only report a comment once.


17.     5/27/10 - 11:52 PM
Jackob - Flatbush

Just because he does a fabulous job with Kids at Risk, doesn't mean that he is now an authority on every issue of Chessed. He is a wonderful Mechanech (his articles are fabulous), but please leave Almonos and Yesomim alone. Fargin them the money that is raised by Areivim, and as long as it lasts, it will last. We have to do Hishtadlus, Hashem makes it happen. Mir darfen tun, nisht auftun!


Report this Post

Thank you.
Your report has been submitted.
You may not see immediate results on your browser, but rest assured, the offensive or inappropriate comment will be dealt with automatically.
You can only report a comment once.


18. Defending Rabbi Horowitz     5/28/10 - 7:50 AM
Eliyahu Katz - Kew Gardens - ekatz@alum.mit.edu

The accusations some of the readers leveled at Rabbi Horowitz demand a response. In general, I would hope that anyone criticizing Rabbi Horowitz would at least have requested and read the additional information he mentioned. I am just reading this now, and have not yet sent for that information, but it is clear from Rabbi Horowitz's delicate and mentchlike description of the information that it contains more serious concerns about the project which he does not want to expose in an open forum. Rabbi Horowitz would not have recommended such a definitive disassociation from the project without a very good reason.

The fact that a few individual yesomim have benefitted from the project does not refute any of his arguments. Not that I am chas vesholom comparing the two, but (just as a reductio ad absurdum argument) people who were fortunate enough to withdraw their money from Bernie Madoff’s firm before it collapsed received a high rate of return on their investment!

The (anonymous) suggestion of #12 that Rabbi Horowitz is abusing the power of the internet to “bury an organization” is rather ironic.


Report this Post

Thank you.
Your report has been submitted.
You may not see immediate results on your browser, but rest assured, the offensive or inappropriate comment will be dealt with automatically.
You can only report a comment once.


19.     5/28/10 - 9:52 AM
The End

Any organization that is unwilling to submit full disclosure of their board, 990 forms, accounting and legal firms associated with their organization should not be given a penny of money. If everything is kosher, be proud and let people know exactly who you are and how you conduct your business. If the organization has something to hide, it's high time for people to hide their money from such organizations. An organization that is intellectually dishonest, or stupid enough to not be aware that insurance companies need regulation and oversight, is not an organization to support.


Report this Post

Thank you.
Your report has been submitted.
You may not see immediate results on your browser, but rest assured, the offensive or inappropriate comment will be dealt with automatically.
You can only report a comment once.


20. What's so hard to understand?     5/28/10 - 10:52 AM
Anonymous

I read the comments on VIN, and I am shocked by the extremism of the comments in either direction as well as the departure from the Caution sign that was the conclusion of Rabbi Horowitz after much research. KYA has failed to be transparent, and every tzedokoh needs to be. Not because of a business model, though that needs to be the case, but because it takes someone else's money with a goal in mind. If I want to contribute to support yesomim, and the result is not achieved, I have not succeeded in performing a mitzvah, despite my intentions. I monitored the dialogue on rabbihorowitz.com, and the evasiveness that KYA displayed was alarming and disconcerting. Rabbi Horowitz did thorough research, asked direct questions, and KYA sidestepped almost every single issue. If someone approached you for "Hachnosas Kallah", and used the money to go on vacation to Bermuda, would you think it proper? Perhaps we should not check up every "collector", but organizations have a public duty to be transparent. KYA failed that test. We need to be sure that tzedokoh reaches its target or it ceases to be a mitzvah. What's so hard to understand?


Report this Post

Thank you.
Your report has been submitted.
You may not see immediate results on your browser, but rest assured, the offensive or inappropriate comment will be dealt with automatically.
You can only report a comment once.


21.     5/28/10 - 10:53 AM
Benzion Twerski

I have spent a great majority of my professional career working with drug addiction. In every single program where I have worked, I volunteered to have random drug screening. While I have never abused drugs, I feel that I should be able to document my abstinence if I am to be in a position to treat those that do have such issues. None of my employers ever asked me to supply the "specimen", but I was always agreeable to it, and they knew it. If I ever took medication that would be a problem on a drug test, I advised my supervisor beforehand.

If I have nothing to hide, why resist the testing? I frown on those whose abstinence needs to be in place who throw their weight behind the "privacy" issue in order to hide their sobriety status. Transparency is needed. When there is secretiveness, there is what to hide, and that is reason for worry.

Ha'maven yovin.


Report this Post

Thank you.
Your report has been submitted.
You may not see immediate results on your browser, but rest assured, the offensive or inappropriate comment will be dealt with automatically.
You can only report a comment once.


22.     5/28/10 - 10:58 AM
Jewinjerusalem

Rabosai, I have a question for you. Let's say I'm collecting for hachnasas kalla. It's for my daughter. I don't have very much money as i learn full time, and we all know the high cost of living in Eretz Yisrael. Not to mention the dira that a father must provide [at least half] to marry off his daughter. Ok.Thank you for your donation.

Will you be upset if you find out my daughter is only five years old? You are angry with me? Well, I'm starting to collect early as it's not easy to raise $100,000 when she'll be 18. Plus, her sister is right behind her. After all a mentch has to make a plan. What's wrong? You don't accept my explanation? You feel i should wait to collect until she's at least 16? Somehow everyone I know is upset and they all think that I'm engaging in geneivas da'as by asking for hachnassas kalla for my five-year old.

Guess what? The money for areivim is for chassunas. It is NOT for the family at the present time. It is to have enough to provide for a dira, dowry, and chassuna. Is that called tzaddaka? I don't think so. What do you think?


Report this Post

Thank you.
Your report has been submitted.
You may not see immediate results on your browser, but rest assured, the offensive or inappropriate comment will be dealt with automatically.
You can only report a comment once.


23. Donor Bill of Rights     5/28/10 - 11:18 AM
Anonymous

The following is from GuideStar.org, and it's sound advice that we should keep in mind when distributing our tzedoka funds:

"To assure that philanthropy merits the respect and trust of the general public, and that donors and prospective donors can have full confidence in the not-for-profit organizations and causes they are asked to support, we declare that all donors have these rights:

I. To be informed of the organization's mission, of the way the organization intends to use donated resources, and of its capacity to use donations effectively for their intended purposes.

II. To be informed of the identity of those serving on the organization's governing board, and to expect the board to exercise prudent judgment in its stewardship responsibilities.

III. To have access to the organization's most recent financial statements.

IV. To be assured their gifts will be used for the purposes for which they were given.

V. To receive appropriate acknowledgement and recognition.

VI. To be assured that information about their donations is handled with respect and with confidentiality to the extent provided by law.

VII. To expect that all relationships with individuals representing organizations of interest to the donor will be professional in nature.

VIII. To be informed whether those seeking donations are volunteers, employees of the organization or hired solicitors.

IX. To have the opportunity for their names to be deleted from mailing lists that an organization may intend to share.

X To feel free to ask questions when making a donation and to receive prompt, truthful and forthright answers."


Report this Post

Thank you.
Your report has been submitted.
You may not see immediate results on your browser, but rest assured, the offensive or inappropriate comment will be dealt with automatically.
You can only report a comment once.


24. Rabbi Horowitz. You are Correct.     5/28/10 - 12:31 PM
MS

The end is to be lauded. The means of achieving this leaves a lot to be desired.

This comes directly from the KYA site...

What are they looking to avoid?

"When a family breadwinner passes away leaving no financial stability, the bereaved family has to face the mortifying music of so called "aide"...

Any self respect is lost in the sea of lousy tzedaka campaigns... The victim's plight becomes public property... The images of shattered hearts become splashed over glossy advertising materials..."

Their goal to avoid this (which I think is a very lofty goal and hashem should help them achieve this goal - better yet, hashem should make it that nobody should ever be in such a position to begin with) is "the Plan".

Again, from the KYA site.

"The Result: $100,000 per orphan. 4. Money raised is placed in a special fund, administered by financial planners. Planners work with the family to ensure that both immediate and long-term needs are met. Widows and orphans depend on interest for their daily needs, leaving the principal for major expenses, such as marriage."

The individuals running the plan have not indicated how they plan on earning the necessary interest to meet the short term needs, nor do they indicate how they plan on protecting the principal. In fact, they do not indicate how they plan to ensure that the principle keeps up with inflation and the cost of living. A chasuna or dira in 10 years from now could potentially cost 25% more than it does today. How much have these expenses grown in the last 10 years.

I think a better idea is to simply ask people to donate to a fund that helps people purchase Term or Whole Life policies. A profesional can help a family determine the proper coverage required to cover the short term as well as long term needs. And non professionals can help our fellow yidden by helping them pay their premiums.


Report this Post

Thank you.
Your report has been submitted.
You may not see immediate results on your browser, but rest assured, the offensive or inappropriate comment will be dealt with automatically.
You can only report a comment once.


25. Stay away from Averim     5/28/10 - 12:43 PM
David Jackson - Silver Spring

Stay away from Averim. They cannot be trsuted for many reasons that have been explained clearly on R. Horowitz's blog and the Orthonomics blog.


Report this Post

Thank you.
Your report has been submitted.
You may not see immediate results on your browser, but rest assured, the offensive or inappropriate comment will be dealt with automatically.
You can only report a comment once.


26. KYA on the air     5/30/10 - 1:30 AM
Anonymous

Talkline Communications is having the top management of KYA on their radio show next Motzoei Shabbos, to "clear up the misinformation and rumors spread on the internet." Should be interesting...


Report this Post

Thank you.
Your report has been submitted.
You may not see immediate results on your browser, but rest assured, the offensive or inappropriate comment will be dealt with automatically.
You can only report a comment once.


27.     5/30/10 - 1:30 AM
Anonymous

It's true that rates are lower for people that are younger, but I highly doubt it's worth paying for the extra insurance immediately after marriage just in order to get a better rate.

Commercial insurance is more expensive then it has to be. Why don't we form our own non profit insurance company?


Report this Post

Thank you.
Your report has been submitted.
You may not see immediate results on your browser, but rest assured, the offensive or inappropriate comment will be dealt with automatically.
You can only report a comment once.


28. to #26     5/30/10 - 8:56 AM
Anonymous

In order to form a system that works, we need to involve professionals at every level of the organization. In order for those professionals to have the level of accountability that is required, they will need to be paid. All of this costs a lot of money. The only thing that you can cut out is the company profit margin. We would have to know how much that is per policy (I don't claim to have any clue) before making a decision as to whether the entire venture is worthwhile.

The idea that a few untrained individuals can manage to cut costs more than a well-run company while offering an equally reliable product, is ludicrous, to say the least. If there was such a large profit cusion in each policy, my guess is that someone would try to offer a lower cost option in order to beat the competition.


Report this Post

Thank you.
Your report has been submitted.
You may not see immediate results on your browser, but rest assured, the offensive or inappropriate comment will be dealt with automatically.
You can only report a comment once.


29. Paid professionals     5/30/10 - 11:02 AM
AK

'In order for those professionals to have the level of accountability that is required, they will need to be paid. All of this costs a lot of money.'

If we look at the business world and all its scandals , accountability tends to decrease with the size of your paycheck. Accountability is a midah , expressing a person's commitment to values , integrity and making a contribution.

If we look at the 'Wikipedia vs Encarter encyclopedias 'scenario we would expect a company like microsoft that had paid employees would do much better than one which relied on the good intentions and altruism of people who are not employees to make a contribution and what do we see Wikipedia thrashing Encarter.

We can thank Areivim for getting the ball going. I hope the frum Jewish mind can come up with something to make the fund more safer and efficient


Report this Post

Thank you.
Your report has been submitted.
You may not see immediate results on your browser, but rest assured, the offensive or inappropriate comment will be dealt with automatically.
You can only report a comment once.


30. Will talkline also have the other side?     5/30/10 - 1:09 PM
Concerned

A previous comment mentioned that KYA will be on Talkline with Zev Brenner to defend the organization. Will they allow someone else (e.g. Rabbi Horowitz) on to give a balanced perspective?


Report this Post

Thank you.
Your report has been submitted.
You may not see immediate results on your browser, but rest assured, the offensive or inappropriate comment will be dealt with automatically.
You can only report a comment once.


31. From VIN     5/31/10 - 12:33 AM
Chaim - Monsey

This following comment was posted on another site, where no matter what happens, there is reason to Bash "the Gedolim".

The people here are unbelievable. When there are a few deaths and no money to give each and every beneficiary, what will everybody say??

"WHERE WERE THE GEDOLIM TO STOP THIS SCAM?"

Well, the GADOL (singular) IS HERE, trying to warn you all, and he is being shouted down.

You can't have it both ways.

The model only works when you have many contributors and few deaths.

If there are too many deaths to handle, they will get nothing.

A classic ponzi scheme.

And you have a TRUE GADOL trying to save everybody,

If you think that when a husband dies without insurance, AND there is no money left in the fund, the Yesomim will say: "Oh, well, we knew there was no guarantee," you have another thing coming.

The numbers don't make sense, and Rabbi Horowitz is the only person with the guts to point it out.


Report this Post

Thank you.
Your report has been submitted.
You may not see immediate results on your browser, but rest assured, the offensive or inappropriate comment will be dealt with automatically.
You can only report a comment once.


32. Enough Talking     5/31/10 - 2:51 PM
MS

Now is the time to encourage people to purchase life insurance. If they can not afford the monthly premiums, then perhaps "the askanim" can set up such a fund whose express purpose is it to help underwrite the monthly premiums for those who cant make the payments.


Report this Post

Thank you.
Your report has been submitted.
You may not see immediate results on your browser, but rest assured, the offensive or inappropriate comment will be dealt with automatically.
You can only report a comment once.


33. to #21     6/1/10 - 12:48 PM
Anonymous

I fail to understand why, when you work with drug addicts, you yourself have volunteered to be screened for drug addiction.

I feel that I should be able to document my abstinence if I am to be in a position to treat those that do have such issues.

Why? If you can help them, great. Your effectiveness is all that matters. No wonder no employer asked you to be tested!

If I have nothing to hide, why resist the testing?

What resistance are you referring to when nobody asked you to be tested?

When there is secretiveness, there is what to hide, and that is reason for worry.

It depends on the circumstances. I was a foster parent for Ohel for a number of years. Then the regulations changed and foster parents (who had already been approved and had served as foster parents) were required to submit to another requirement, finger printing.

I could accept the idea that new applicants for foster parentings would be presented with all the requirements, old and new, but that I, an already approved foster parent, was required to do this was offensive. I had and have nothing to hide. The new regulation was unreasonable, in my opinion.


Report this Post

Thank you.
Your report has been submitted.
You may not see immediate results on your browser, but rest assured, the offensive or inappropriate comment will be dealt with automatically.
You can only report a comment once.


34. Response to #33     6/1/10 - 5:26 PM
Benzion Twerski

To #33

Your questions are good and deserve response.

In the addiction field, there are many who seek and gain employment working with the addicted population who are in recovery themselves. It is not impossible that any of these staff would relapse in get into a position where their effectiveness will suffer. In my days working in an outpatient program, we had a few such incidents. While I was not in recovery, never having abused drugs, I felt the responsibility to be prepared to back that up.

My statement about resistance might have been out of context, and it deserves an explanation. We have all heard the outcry about “rights”. This democratic concept has been taken to extremes, almost deified. Can a bus driver be drug screened prior to taking a passenger laden bus on the highway? There are those voices (often from trade unions and the like) that claim that this would be an invasion of privacy. A similar argument has been stated about having parochial schools do fingerprinting on all staff and faculty. The notion of drug screening an employee of a drug treatment program can easily meet with resistance, based on the ideology of privacy rights. I suggest that this issue should not be private. If I would resist, the ideology is just the excuse. The real resistance is because I am hiding something, and that is precisely what needs to be in the open.

I sympathize with your foster parent experience. Being included in a new regulation when your track record has already been proven has its idiocy. I would have mocked the reg, but graciously submitted to the process.


Report this Post

Thank you.
Your report has been submitted.
You may not see immediate results on your browser, but rest assured, the offensive or inappropriate comment will be dealt with automatically.
You can only report a comment once.


35. response to #34     6/1/10 - 9:22 PM
Anonymous

I thank you for your response though I disagree with you. I think the screening has gotten out of hand and yes, I think it's an invasion of our privacy. If foster parents need to be fingerprinted, what about biological parents? If bus drivers need to be screened for drugs, what about all drivers? In all the cases you brought, I think the screening and fingerprinting are invasive and not helpful.

It is not reasonable to accuse all those who disagree of wanting to hide something.

P.S. How about screening for drugs, alcohol, and medication before doing a shidduch? Many a marriage has been ruined because information about medication was withheld. And if you can come up with a method of screening for pornography viewers that would also help prevent many a marriage from ruin.


Report this Post

Thank you.
Your report has been submitted.
You may not see immediate results on your browser, but rest assured, the offensive or inappropriate comment will be dealt with automatically.
You can only report a comment once.


36. response to #35     6/2/10 - 8:07 AM
Benzion Twerski

Not all disagreement is bad. Our differences allow for intelligent debate. I appreciate that.

I agree that screening is an invasion of privacy. It is quite similar to the need to provide ID when cashing a check at the bank. However, because the world has more than its share of dishonesty, at the expense of others, we each have the right to verify things for our own protection. My clients need to verify my stability. In my own office, these clients have the right to question me. I have the right to respond or to cover things up. If they are dissatisfied, they may go elsewhere. In a corporate setting, there is an entity designating me as the direct service provider who is ultimately responsible. If there is reason for them to verify my status, than I need to either resist their investigation and forfeit the position, or to be transparent. Yes, it invades privacy. But the understanding is that the benefits outweigh the costs. And there is room for debate here.

As for all drivers, the response is the same as above. There are periodic sobriety checkpoints, especially on holiday weekends. They should be unnecessary, but nebach they are needed.

You have a point about the fingerprinting, though not because of the privacy issue. (We leave our fingerprints everywhere, but don’t want them to be seen?) For the greatest portion of crime that we need to track, the role of fingerprints is nearly irrelevant. Again, I feel differently about privacy, but you make a good point.

The pre-shidduch screening is actually an important issue, and it opens up a different discussion that should have its own thread. It raises the secretiveness about issues that is maintained prior to a shidduch that only surface later in ways that threaten the viability of a marriage. The medical and psychiatric illnesses that were kept hidden bring up the complaint of “mekach to’us”. There is no way to screen for the pornography issue, but these questions are very legitimate. I have direct connection with many such cases (all of the above), and efforts to rescue these relationships are most challenging. This repeats the honesty issue mentioned earlier, one of the shortcomings of today’s world.


Report this Post

Thank you.
Your report has been submitted.
You may not see immediate results on your browser, but rest assured, the offensive or inappropriate comment will be dealt with automatically.
You can only report a comment once.


37. Another response to #35     6/2/10 - 8:18 AM
Shakespeare

In response to #35's concern about fingerprinting for foster parents:

To misquote Shakespeare: Methinks he doth protest too much!

If I was the agency monitoring this foster parent, I would be extra vigilant with this person. This much protest over fingerprinting leads me to believe that he has something to hide.


Report this Post

Thank you.
Your report has been submitted.
You may not see immediate results on your browser, but rest assured, the offensive or inappropriate comment will be dealt with automatically.
You can only report a comment once.


38.     6/2/10 - 1:29 PM
Anonymous

to #35

Gee, aren't we quick to look for criminals.

I was a foster parent with Ohel for years. Then a new regulation was announced. I told the social worker: I was approved by you and the state and was a foster parent for years. I object to additional screening at this point. Goodbye.

My work as a foster parent was voluntary. It was my chesed. Sorry to hear that you think that people should be forced to do chesed no matter their feelings about it or you will suspect them of criminal activity.

P.S. I originally responded to Ohel's call for foster parents because they said they had a dire need for them. Apparently by the time I left the need wasn't that dire. If you are that concerned about children in need of homes, you are welcome to go through the invasive screening process yourself. Go ahead ... get the references, have the home visits, get fingerprinted, have the criminal check done, attend the meetings - all on your time, no pay.


Report this Post

Thank you.
Your report has been submitted.
You may not see immediate results on your browser, but rest assured, the offensive or inappropriate comment will be dealt with automatically.
You can only report a comment once.


39. To #38     6/3/10 - 4:27 PM
Anonymous

You are to be applauded for your amazing chessed. But Ohel doesn't make the regulations, and they can't bend the state's rules even if they know and trust you, and would leave their own children with you.

I understand that you were hurt -- and there may be complaints against the organization -- by this is unfair to them.


Report this Post

Thank you.
Your report has been submitted.
You may not see immediate results on your browser, but rest assured, the offensive or inappropriate comment will be dealt with automatically.
You can only report a comment once.


40. I know.     6/6/10 - 1:34 PM
Anonymous

Sigh. 1) I am well aware that Ohel did not make the regulations. 2) I was not hurt. I was annoyed. 3) I have no complaints against Ohel.


Report this Post

Thank you.
Your report has been submitted.
You may not see immediate results on your browser, but rest assured, the offensive or inappropriate comment will be dealt with automatically.
You can only report a comment once.


41. Where is the other half ?     6/8/10 - 11:45 AM
Moishe Kahan - NY - moisheka1@gmail.com

1. Why are there so many anonymous here

2. With all due respect to Rabbi Horowitz I see the dialogue with KYA ( kol yisroel areivim . But where is the correspondence with the Areivim( by Kupat Ha’ir)


Report this Post

Thank you.
Your report has been submitted.
You may not see immediate results on your browser, but rest assured, the offensive or inappropriate comment will be dealt with automatically.
You can only report a comment once.


42. Anonymous     6/8/10 - 2:18 PM
Chaim Yitzchak Hershkowitz - Lakewood

The name I used for this message is no more or no less identifying than the ever popular "anonymous". I made it up. Names in an online forum open to anyone are quite meaningless.

Regarding the other version of Areivim, while there is no "dialogue" here, you can always go to their website and ask as many questions as you want. I have a feeling Rabbi Horowitz has had enough of this.


Report this Post

Thank you.
Your report has been submitted.
You may not see immediate results on your browser, but rest assured, the offensive or inappropriate comment will be dealt with automatically.
You can only report a comment once.


43. How does one dissolve the relationship with them?     6/29/10 - 1:26 PM
Rachel

Who should I contact? I signed some papers & provided them w/ my credit card information, how do I cancel my membership with them? I don't even know who to contact. The reason I signed up with them is because one Rabbi from a prominent yeshiva told me to go ahead & sign up with them, they are trustworthy & mean well. Please provide any info. that you have on how to dissove the membership with them. Thank you so much for everything.

  Rate & Write a Comment!
Dear Readers:

Please visit our Parenting Resource listing to learn about agencies and services that you can make use of. If you know of an agency that can be of assistance to others, kindly drop an email to our site administrator at admin@RabbiHorowitz.com and pass along the information to him.

I ask that you please consider supporting the work we are doing to improve the lives of our children. Click on these links to learn more about our teen and parent mentoring program that serves hundreds of teens and their families, or our KESHER program, now in 20 schools in 4 states. Your financial support can allow us to expand these services and help more children.

If you believe in the governing principles of this website – to help effect positive change through the candid discussions of the real issues we collectively face, please consider becoming a daily, weekly or monthly sponsor of this website and help defray the costs of it’s maintenance.



Working with Families and Educators on Behalf of our Children

This site is managed by The Center for Jewish Family Life, Inc., 56 Briarcliff Drive, Monsey, NY 10952
Project Y.E.S. was founded by Agudath Israel of America
The Center for Jewish Family Life/Project YES - 56 Briarcliff Drive, Monsey, NY 10952 (845) 352-7100 ext. 114 Fax: (845) 352-9593
email: email@kosherjewishparenting.com


Advertisements